Psilocybin decreases brain blood flow and connectivity

@Syskil,

This may not explain the activity of psilocybin, but it is interesting what happens to Jill when the left side of her brain stops working:

[link]

Draw your own conclusions about mushrooms.

I'd also like to point out that when you say that "blood loss to the brain doesn't expand/open/clear consciousness, it shuts it off," it might be more accurate to say "normal waking consciousness". And if you only believe in one type of consciousness, perhaps you should consider dream consciousness.

Finally, I wonder why you are expending effort knocking the users here. Have you tried any of these wonderful substances in a safe, intentional environment?

I got into some deep thinking maybe a couple of days before this study was published; asking the alien God (considered christianity) and it said that the different strains of mushrooms do different things to the brain like produce different trips and that all edible; which I didn't understand but just now He told me through thoughts that its the way they are prepared, which could also factor into the study.

YAYA YA, well now I read in the trades that truffels are up.

This is not the first neuro-imaging study with psilocybin. A study by Gouzoulis-Mayfrank from 1999 [link] in 8 people found "Psilocybin increased rMRGlu in distinct right hemispheric frontotemporal cortical regions, particularly in the anterior cingulate and decreased rMRGlu in the thalamus." Here rMRGlu refers to use of glucose (sugar) by brain cells. Basically increased rMRGlu = increased brain activity.

Also, a neuro-imaging study by Hermle from 1992 [link] found that mescaline increased activity in the frontal cortex.

So the earlier studies do not agree with the new study. That is not surprising considering that all were quite small and thus unreliable. It's difficult to evaluate the new Carhart-Harris study because it is not yet published.

The interesting thing would be to look at brain activity during different specific tasks (maybe listening to psytrance or watching a fractal film?), instead of just having the people laying there. However, given the wide range of subjective effects induced by psilocybin, it's unlikely that it will ever be possible to identify a specific effect on brain activity.

This is the first psychedelic clinical research in the UK in a long time. Congradulations to Robin Carhart-Harris and the other Imperial College London researchers!!!

@Syskil
What are you talking about?
No one lost any blood. There was no clotting or brain damage.
Anyway, science does not have the tools to find the ghost in the machine.

One more thing - it's ironic that Syskil is the most superstitious participant with the most "shut off" consciousness in this discussion. The article said nothing about ischemia, any damage caused by the reduced blood flow, or any harm caused by psilocybin. It did say that psilocybin is a potential treatment for depression. Syskil is simply projecting his own prejudices onto this headline, which is something that a good scientist would avoid.

Cerebral blood flow is tightly regulated based on brain metabolism - the reduced flow here is actually preventing damage that could occur if flow remained high despite reduced activity and metabolism.

Syskil, do you have sex? An earlier article in the New Scientist found that orgasm results in decreased brain activity. This causes a change in consciousness that does no harm and is an essential part of the human experience.

I disagree with jamesk's interpretation of this and agree with primordialstu - I don't think the change in blood flow is necessarily caused by constricted blood vessels or anything else that is necessarily harmful to the brain; it probably is just a sign of decreased activity. As the article we're discussing points out, this can be very helpful for people with depression - in their cases, the decreased activity clearly does expand/open/clear consciousness, and scientists would agree. I submit that even people who would not qualify for a diagnosis can benefit from this, hence the 2006 Johns Hopkins study in which over 60 percent of participants reported that psilocybin improved their lives.

Syskil mad

@DT-Syskil doesn't drink alcohol. @DONONAMOUS-learn to type a proper sentence. Maybe you took too much shrooms and lost blood flow to your brain and forgot how to type in proper English.
@EPORT-I read quotes by those gentlemen you suggested. Doesn't change that fact that blood loss to the brain doesn't expand/open/clear consciousness, it shuts it off. (i.e a stroke, ischemia). Similarly, your heart doesn't expand when you have a lack of blood pumping to it, you have a heart attack resulting in possible death. No superstition involved here, just science. Philosophize your way around those facts.

Syskil-3, Drug Users-0

My quick take on this is that all tryptamines are active on the cardiovascular system, and many of them are vasoconstrictors, which means they make blood vessels contract and make blood pressure go up. So the result of constricted or decreased blood supply is not surprising.

The loss of connectivity between areas most likely corresponds to increase in production of internal imagery. Decoupling of higher brain functions is an essential piece of my working theory on hallucination. Brains in deep mediation, dream, and problem solving routines also take on these configurations.

I personally have found psilocybin to be more "sleepy" than other psychedelics, so I would be interested to see if these results also apply to LSD or DMT. I would also like to seeing corresponding EEG results. But oh well.

Hell, I wasn't knocking the science in the article. I'm all for brain scan studies. I was knocking the journalism, which seems to mis-represent the findings and sets up a false dualism of "mind-expanding" vs. "less blood flow."

Saying "a pattern of decreased brain activity triggers a 'profound' experience" expresses the same thing as "the soul speaks when the brain is quiet." The "soul" is simply a placeholder for the missing explanation of the "profound experience." Scientific language does not have a monopoly on truth for all purposes. Also, I guess Syskil has to "justify himself" everytime he has sex or drinks alcohol.

syskil, fuck that noise, psilocybin has still been proved for instance give better visual acuity.

PLUS isnt there some sort of difference between injected psilocybin vs. ingesting shrooms with a few different tryptamines and different alkaloids?!?!?!?!?!?!

It's amazing how prohibition supporters will try to justify themselves by pointing out that drug users do not use the language favored by the powerful.

@Syskil It's true that there are a lot of opinionated individuals on here trying to validate their own beliefs, but it's very interesting that the general consensus is when the brain limits its activity, consciousness becomes expanded/open/clearer (from the subjective point of view). It's valid to believe that consciousness is not some kind of higher brain function but rather a much more fundamental principle. Take a look at what Schrodinger, Bohm, and Einstein all had to say about consciousness and you might come to appreciate its unique nature. Just as art doesn't need science to validate it's existence, spirit is not subordinate to science either. Your ancestors knew this. It's true that they attached a lot of superstition to spirituality but the truth rests at the core, not the embellishments. Now please stop bothering us 'drug users.'

I ate less than a gram ground up into chocolates an hour ago and i stumbled on this article... fantastic :) It may not 'expand my mind' scientifically but i feel fantastic.

It's amazing how drug users will try to justify themselves by knocking the science behind the article and talking about their "soul speaking when the brain is quiet." Nonsense!

That's a neat thing to bring up Tim.
I know I could get flack for this but this probably shows that's it is an adjuctive therapy to cancer perhaps? If metasticies happen from tumors getting angiogenisis... Anyways that's just brainstorming while stating something that is obvious.
Dosnt also opiates decrease bloody ow, if I was in terminal cancer which is painful, I'd want that!
Hoping for more psychedelic drug comparisons.

This article fails. F

Well put, primordialstu.

It's interesting to see theories such as Huxley/Bergson's reducing-valve get modern scientific support like this.

If awareness expands as the brain quietens, this raises questions about the locality of said awareness, and seems to go against the belief that it is instantiated in the material brain.

Orgasm is also accompanied by decreased brain activity, especially in women.

That's for sure : shrooms, as LSD, mescaline and all psychedelics just remove the brain filter between our soul and reality. We just know nom where the filter lies in the brain !

Psilocybin and Piracetam is a good combo, and Piracetam supposedly increases blood-flow. In an abstract way that might be like a stimulant/depressant combo, but without the dangers of anything that affects the heart.

You can hear your soul on Psilocybin mushrooms when your brain is working less and intuition more. Aha!

This is an interesting study, but the way it is framed here is suspect, IMO. Less blood flow measured via fMRI, it should be noted, simply denotes less activity in those areas, not any kind of brain starvation. Connectivity from the forebrain to the hippocampus is usually involved in the memory-sorting activities of the brain's default network. Experienced meditators also show brains that are quieter in this way. The "mind-expanding" vs. "less blood flow" is bullshit... the brain limits perception in a lot of ways and a quieter brain usually means greater perception in the present, without making judgment or interpretation. For example, see this recent study: [link]