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Reality Sandwich withdraws from Peru retreat

Um, yeah, I was trying to ignore this, but comments on the fallout of RS vs. Chimbre in the case of "Vague financial disagreement in Peru retreat" go beyond the normal psychedelic levels of recondite absurdity. I want to make some kind of statement about business and psychedelics and egos and money, but... but... After five pages of back and forth bickering the good RS readers have whipped this issue into the ground! A snippet from Jesse Winthrop, who has the last word (out of thousands) as of a few minutes ago:

This question of how to proceed when economics and spirituality come into contact with each other is difficult. I will offer my perspective. If there is a legitimate good or service being offered, then infuse them with spiritual intention and advertise/sell away in an open and honest manner. But if we are going to try to "capitalize" on the actual spiritual forces themselves (shamanic initiations, healing energies, etc) then frankly, I think we are treading on dangerous ground and run the risk of stirring up this kind of negative energy. Was the money in this Peru trip going for tangible things like food, lodging, and travel expenses or was someone trying to turn a profit on the spiritual energies themselves? If so, I find that troubling.

Posted By jamesk at 2010-02-27 19:26:07 permalink | comments
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erocx1 : 2010-03-02 21:12:43
I think I failed to communicate my feelings adequately. I am happy MAPS & RS are here and do what they do. I give them thanks, but no longer my money. I do support Erowid and many other psy community projects. In regards to MAPS & RS I have just had a few personal observations and experiences that let me down some but that could all have been all due to my perspective. I may have artificially viewed them as some sort of Utopian community, then watched the realities of money bring out worst in people.

I really admire your work James and above all your willingness to share it. I too am in the psychedelic business if you will, in the ethnobotanical field and in the past music, events, along with other things. It is a delicate balance and I understand what you mean by mixing in everyone's own idea of ethics, with trying to earn a living. I guess any of us doing this, at any time, may some day put the dollar in front of ideals or appear less the genuine to outside observers. So I will try to not be so judgmental. Thanks for making me think about this.

jamesk : 2010-03-02 12:04:24
@erox1 : "This is why I have become disenchanted with MAPS." At least MAPS raises money to fund scientific research, and they do try to support the wishes of investors. Erowid is also a non-profit and solicits donations and raises money to support their efforts, so why not call them greedy and become disenchanted with them? I don't think the money is the issue, I think what is done with the money is more important. MAPS and Erowid need to file public accounting statements to retain their non-profit status. Private corporations that do psychedelic business are always suspect in my book, but I am willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Since Trip Magazine everything I have done in this field is available free online. My book will be available for free online, as will any other material I produce on the topic of psychedelics. Thinking about money and profit and sales and trying to run a business around psychedelic media and education is just too much work and too many ethical gray areas for me. But I do support MAPS and Erowid and groups I think are accomplishing positive things with my cash.
Sean. : 2010-03-02 12:00:06
Perhaps we're not using our superior intellects to their full capacity. The fact is, there was a misunderstanding. It's not just about money, it's not just about spirituality or DMT, and it's not just business.

It's life.

Compartmentalizing everything creates boundaries between them, and this leads to conflict. Conflict internally, as we become fragmented between "personal" and "public", "economic" and "spiritual", "business" and "pleasure".

Some have attempted to contribute to a resolution of the conflict, others have made it personal and brought their own crap to add to the pile. Some are trying to understand while others are judging and condemning.

If it's all life, then what are the processes that are affirming life and what are the ones that aren't?

erocx1 : 2010-03-02 10:51:55
BTW, Alan. I think you do an outstanding job of demonstrating balance with the need to raise funds to provide a service offering an incredible opportunity to bring people together in the Amazon to learn about and share sacred experiences. Thank you!

Also I forgot to mention podcasts like the Psychedelic Salon, gnostic media, C-Realm, Psychonautica, Shamanic Freedom Radio, Expanding Mind all do a great job of spreading information and ideas, providing excellent content for our community with out having to raise and fight over large amounts of cash.

erocx1 : 2010-03-02 09:27:42
Both lose points in my opinion and RS has been pretty money hungry, even before this incident and Chimbre is now off with an ugly start. We all like money and more money can make all the difference for any project. But it is sad to watch the focus shift from passion and community to an effort to make cash. So much so, that there is public conflict over money. Their sincerity and integrity can be forever compromised. This is why I have become disenchanted with MAPS. I still enjoy these sites and am glad they are there, however I wont relate, support or contribute to them. I love forums, personal blogs, Erowid and of course DoseNation! I hope sites like these will always be here.
bill. : 2010-03-01 04:45:38
@Sean, everybody knows that, but these guys are trying to pour some kind of shamanic validation all over this. It's just regular old business. They just have this habit (and obligation...?) to make it connect to DMT and spiritual development memetics.
Sean. : 2010-02-28 23:41:34
If diamonds were as widely distributed as opinions, do you think they'd have any value? It's easy to sit back, have opinions and be critical. It takes work, sincerity, patience, and vulnerability to resolve conflicts in order that we might live in a more peaceful and tolerant world.

Don't you guys sit around bitching about the lack of tolerance in the world for your interests? Come on.

alan shoemaker. : 2010-02-28 20:39:59
this is the opening of Chimbre and so no doubt there are many misunderstandings from both sides...
bill. : 2010-02-28 13:46:40
Winthrop's snippet there makes a good point. I read through some of the comments there, and thought it was often pretty hilarious. It seemed a good example of how fighting for reputation can be carried out beneath a flimsy cloth made of: *generous* urgings to heal; I-got-no-ego-more-than-the-other-guy-don't puffery; and piles of words such as "energy," "realignment," "serve," and "love."

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