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Interview with Rak Razam

Australia's experiential journalist speaks out on entheogens, ayahuasca, salvia, and global psychedelic culture

Interview by James Kent
Self-described "experiential journalist" Rak Razam is a busy man: Two wives, two kids, and two new entheogenic books to promote. Editor of "The Journeybook: Travels on the Frontiers of Consciousness" and author of "Aya: A Shamanic Odyssey", Razam has his finger on the pulse of the Australian entheo scene and the global awakening. He graciously took the time to answer our questions for this exclusive DoseNation interview.

---

If I shredded and smoked 'The Journeybook', how high would I get?

Probably not very high. But during our launch party at Rainbow Serpent Festival in January, "somebody" dosed our sangria punch to make it psychoactive and then claimed to have dropped a dose of Hofmann's finest on the cover of a few books. We originally wanted to perforate the covers in a grid like a sheet of acid, but every printer we spoke to balked at the idea - not so much from a production angle but because they thought we were doing something illegal! So who knows, if you buy a copy of 'The Journeybook' and lick the cover you may get very high indeed.

You had to spend months editing all these articles, which one was your least favorite?

James, that's like asking which of my children I love least! All the articles are written to a very high standard, but I will say that some writers were harder to deal with than others. I had to hound Terence McPhilip -- a really wonderful writer that deserves more recognition -- to finish his work. He lives near Byron Bay, the hippie Mecca of Australia, and he was pretty busy knee-deep into the psychedelic experience on a continual experiential basis, a bit like the beatniks but here in Australia we would call them "bushniks". McPhillip is a walking continually self-medicating drug store, so it was hard to get him sober and lucid. But when I did his articles were fantastic: An overview of the failure of the revolutionary promise of the Ecstasy generation, "Whatever Happened to the E-volution?"; and "Inside the K-Hole", a sarcastic take on the ketamine experience; plus a raw piece on the pharmaceutical industry and the prescription drug fad. He's an up-and coming writer to watch.

How many people contributed essays to 'The Journeybook'?

There's over two dozen contributors from around the globe with a solid Australian flavor. There are overviews of different aspects of psy-culture, like Peter Webster on the failure of prohibition or Erik Davis on the rise of the contemporary psychonaut, plus in-depth interviews. There’s an interview on the psychedelic resurgence with Daniel Pinchbeck, and a gem of a previously unpublished interview with Terence McKenna.

An Australian DJ called Krusty interviewed Terence when he came out here in early 1997 and they rapped about all things under the sun -- including Diana Ross and the need for a new dance! Terence also quite astutely prophesized the War on Terror and the rise of dominator culture trying to wrest control just as the new wave of psychedelic revolution builds. It was quite a trip to read this interview from 'beyond the grave' and see how it still has resonance for the here and now. And there's also Dennis McKenna, Terence's brother, on what it's like going inside the ayahuasca molecule from a scientist's perspective!

So half the book is upside down, and when I flip it over the other half is upside down. Is this a metaphor for something?

We decided to make it a flip-book that can be read in two directions. One starts at "History's first drug bust" with Adam and Eve in the Garden, and that side charts the sacramental plants and earth entheogens. The other side starts at 2012 and delineates the man-made chemicals and modern psychedelic movement, including a story I wrote about Albert Hofmann's 100th birthday symposium in Basel called "Rebirth: The Psychedelic Movement Comes of Age". Both sides meet in the middle and there's also a timeline with data-nuggets charting the history of psy culture through the ages.

You have some crazy art in this book. What is Art Director Tim Parish's favorite PhotoShop filter?

Tim is an amazing Art Director and has given 'The Journeybook' a real organic, unifying feel with customized tweaks. The artists in the book are global and have a fresh approach to representing psychedelic states. There's little of the cliched tie-die swirling hypnogogic imagery, instead we have Oli Dunlop doing amazing photography montages and surreal artscapes; and Gerhard Hillman, who has done many of the entheo pieces specifically about sacred plants like San Pedro and magic mushrooms. His art is wonderfully organic, photo-realistic and gets to the guts of the psychedelic experience in a visceral way. There's also wonderful imagery by Shiptu Shaboo, Andy Ross and others, and Tim himself has a number of moving pieces inspired by his ayahuasca experiences in Japan which absorb the thick fluid Japanese style. He's exhibited many of his works internationally, and Undergrowth is hosting an exhibition feature many Journeybook artists later this year. That may tour and hit San Francisco and Burning Man in August.

How would you characterize the psychedelic scene down under? What's unique to Australia?

Australia has an ancient and powerful energy that's rubbed off on the people and the psychedelic scene here, which has, by they way, an amazing abundance of entheogens. We have a raft of Acacia species with DMT in them, including our national emblem! There's a new tree just been "discovered" in Perth that has six times the yields of DMT than the normal acacias, and the entheo scene is bubbling over with a new wave of exploration and journeywork.

There's lots of overlap between the Australian trance music scene and the annual festivals like Rainbow Serpent that gather 10,000 plus dancers to ritually stomp on the earth. There's been a current of activist energy in Australia that reflects the worldwide anti-globalization movement, but here it was anchored to direct action against inappropriate logging, saving the forests, stopping uranium mines, etc. Earthdream.net has been pivotal in organizing autonomous networks of people to make a difference as well as party; those ethics rub off on the psy scene, too. EGA - Entheogenesis Australis is an organization I'm involved with that hosts annual conferences in the bush, and there's such a vibrant buzz about the Oz Plant scene. So many faces brimming with solid knowledge and linking up.

We like to call it the "Ultraculture" down here, not the counterculture, which is a dated term. The Ultraculture are the grandkids of MK-Ultra worldwide, the bright young things with the activist know-how and the hippie heart, the unified spiritual warrior. Everyone here's into bio-diesel, sustainability, solar, doofs (trance music gatherings), plants and living the new paradigm. It's a really exciting time to be in Australia. The seed bed of the last 20 years is sprouting now.

If you had to write your own intro, would you call yourself a "whacked-out gonzo journalist" or a "neo-hippie entheoscribe on a mission"?

I like to call myself an "experiential journalist" as well as a media provocateur. I may get whacked out -- but professionally whacked out -- and I always take lots of recordings, etc. to capture the experiences with an eye to making artifacts to ground into my work. There is an element where I believe in the experiences and greatly respect the cultures I'm visiting and sharing medicine with. There is such a rich body of knowledge, for instance, that the curanderos of Peru can share with the world, or that elders like Albert Hofmann had to give to us here and now. And we need all the tools at our disposal as we make this evolutionary leap from the old to the new paradigm, so experiential journalism is the best tool I have to contribute to that change. By accurately sharing my experiences and the tribal visions of others I hope that these ideas can percolate into the mainstream collective consciousness, the moms and pops and young kids hungry to find truth and enable change within themselves. I do journey out onto the edge, but it's the return and sharing that's most important. That's what 'The Journeybook' is about, and what 'Aya: a Shamanic Odyssey' is all about, and what I hope the future is all about too.

What’s your take on ayahuasca in the new book?

Two of the stories in Journeybook - "Jungle Fever" and "Surfing: a DMT journey into the heart of the Godhead" are excerpts from 'Aya: a Shamanic Odyssey', which will be released by Icaro Publishing in late May, 2009. It is part journalistic account, part adventure-memoir of my travels in South America and the world of Amazonian shamanism. There's so much to cover there as it's a booming international business and the culture shock between the old world and the new. The mix of Peruvian shamanism and Western capitalism is fraught with difficulties. And then there's the ineffable mystery and magic of the ayahuasca experience itself, which cannot be commodified, although the West is certainly trying its best!

The book though takes a journalistic approach. It started as a feature article for Australian Penthouse and I interviewed over two dozen curanderos throughout Peru, charting the business of spirituality as well as the magic of ayahuasca. It gets pretty cosmic in parts, like when a rogue scientist wired me up to a skullcap connected to his computer to map my EEG brainwaves while I smoked DMT. After a lot of ayahausca ceremonies I was flushed clean and receptive to spirit, and because I was in this hyperreal journalistic mode I managed to record or remember lucidly an archetypal white light or godhead encounter and ground it in words. I firmly believe, as Terence said, that we need to start grounding the Other, bringing ideas back to share with the tribe, and the whole Aya book is a great example of that, of contextualizing psychic journeywork embedded within a professional journalist approach to recording Amazonian shamanism. It's aimed at mainstream audiences to give an objective overview of the rise in global shamanism and why it's important for the planet at the moment.

Other than the cleansing and the psychic afterglow, what do you think is the most important thing ayahuasca has to offer?

I think the most important thing ayahuasca can offer the West is a reconnection to spirit on a personal level and on a Gaian collective level. Ayahuasca opens you up to your own heart space for your own emotional healing in an idiosyncratic way that is individual to you and your needs. It's an amazing planetary exo-pheromone that is being seeded just as we need it collectively, and the ability to glean your own wisdom from it is enormous.

But on the larger scale the value is in connecting in a visceral way, so there are no gaps or spaces between you and the web of life around you. It is astounding. On so many ayahuasca experiences I would hear the crow of chickens, the rustle of trees, the sounds of the jungle, etc., and feel the energy of these creatures in an unbroken thread that I was connected to and they were part of in a rolling, breathing, interdependent super organism. Words don't do it justice because it's a translinguistic experience. But there is a heart and a love involved in this connection to It All, a mother love that madre ayahuasca can give to enable your own healing.

Where drugs like acid opened the mind in the ‘60s, and ecstasy the heart in the ‘80s, ayahuasca is now tuning in the spirit in the ‘00s, and I think the Gaian-mother-oversoul or whatever you want to call it is giving us that opportunity to connect to her, and all of life through her, to know what we really are. So the most precious thing in my opinion is that intimate and sacred reconnection. There is also amazing value in being facilitated and guided by trained curanderos or shamans in an indigenous setting in the jungle, where the pulse of life is strong and their knowledge and wisdom can be shared. But it's the plants, and especially ayahuasca that is doing the healing.

I recently watched video where you turn some people onto salvia and describe the experience like "becoming the drug" or "becoming something larger than yourself". What do you think is going on when you are fully immersed in that salvia consciousness?

I was approached by Vivecoolcity.com, an Australian mob which bills itself as a 'Gen Y' video site that talks about drug issues to their "hip" demographic, because they wanted someone with knowledge about Salvia divinorum. At first I was a bit leery that the tone and style of the site was going to encourage reckless hedonism. One of the stories I'd written in 'The Journeybook' was 'Divine Voyeurs: the Salvia YouTube Trip', which examined the current fad of filming Salvia experiences and uploading the videos to YouTube - often in the comedy section like it's "Jackass"-style content.

I was happy to see the reporter was palatable to hearing about the spiritual side of Salvia, how sacred it had been to the Maxatecs and how bastardized it had quickly become in the West, and despite filming two of his friends taking it they at least gave them the spiritual context to run with. My own Salvia experiences have been limited but intense: Salvia seemed to me to become me on a molecular level, not just removing the ego like other drugs but inserting its own consciousness in my place. A very alien experience of feeling and being different, multi-dimensional, moving through and becoming the things perceived, and of MC Escher-like dimensional fallout. It'd be great if the YouTube crowd experimented with more serious mapping of these spaces and sharing that info. There are a handful of psychonauts who do that, but usually people are hampered by the illegality of drugs. Salvia is still an opportunity to be grasped.

You mention the 2012 meme in the Journeybook. What do you think is waiting for us on the other side of the cycle?

The 2012 meme is naturally building to a self-fulfilling climax. What's interesting are the things outside of ourselves that are also rapidly changing as we head to 2012, the financial collapse, rapid cultural change, global warming, technology advances, etc. The vectors of change are part and parcel of the global transformation we are witnessing and the awakening of consciousness is at the heart of the change.

At the least I think we are living through a process of awakening that on the other side will result in a global culture that is aware of it's place in the natural order. We're being called to account for our 6,000 years of unsustainability and driven back into concert with the earth, and that's where things like entheogens have a primal role in helping with this Gaian reconciliation. It's one thing to "go green" but another entirely to "know green", to have an intimate psychic connection with the earth through entheogens, which then awaken us to our place in the web of life.

There's lots of fear around 2012 as the mainstream media tries to integrate and dismiss the nature of the event, and it’s not about a man made date like the millennium, it’s about 0.0.0.0.0 in our cosmic orbit of 26,000 years around the Milky Way, about connecting to galactic center and learning our place in the cosmic bio-rhythm. That may mean pole shift, mass coronal solar flare ejections, who knows? It's really about earth going through its natural cycle of awakening, just as we are on our level. I think the opportunity is there culturally with movements like Evolver in the US to harness this awakening and maximize the opportunities for our own growth. I'd encourage people to use the 2012 date as a catalyst for the change they want to see in the world.

Posted By jamesk at 2009-05-19 11:33:25 permalink | comments
Tags: rak razam interview ayahuasca journeybook salvia
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Cal. : 2009-12-10 04:34:34
Hii, just wondering about this new species of wattle that's been found? My dad's a botanist so i'm quite good at IDing acacias, does anyone know the name of the species?? Sounds like the DMT content is ridiculous
hmm not so sure. : 2009-05-22 09:05:30
Thanks anonymous! Very insightful. I think I understand better what you're saying now.
I have also been reading a lot over on forums.ayahuasca.com for a couple of years now (but still haven't signed up yet)
And I like you take on things there, you provide many good points and a healthy counterbalance to the IMO often a bit too new-agey overall tone.

There was a great movie in the 80's about this, called, I believe Brainstorms. Check it out if you haven't seen it. The best scene is when they replay the death.

Yes, I watched "Brainstorm" some time ago. Good movie!
www.imdb.com/title/tt0085271/

I you haven't, everybody also checkout "From Beyond (1986)"
Scientists create a resonator to stimulate the pineal gland (sixth sense), and open up a door to a parallel (and hostile) universe...
www.imdb.com/title/tt0091083/

Anonymous. : 2009-05-21 23:31:35
"Can you explain what it is about the experience that doesn't support the belief, how did you get the hunch that this is just your brain playing tricks on yourself?"

I don't think it's just my brain playing tricks on me. But the point is a little subtle; hopefully it's not too big to be addressed within the comments of a drug blog (but hey, at least it isn't twitter :) ).

One of the modern West's cultural heritages -- which I don't think serves us very well -- is the bias that comes from Materialism and Logical Positivism that says something must be objective to be real and/or meaningful. This is taken to absurd extremes in academic philosophy by people like Dennett, who go so far to claim that nothing subjective even has meaning. This flies in the face of common sense, and it should.

Objective phenomena are worthy of study and contemplation. Subjective phenomena are worthy of ascribed meanings. Ditto on the Inter-subjective (i.e., cultural). I happen to like Ken Wilburs take on this when he says that all domains of human experience (he calls them quadrants) are valid and important. Frankly, it is only a form of fundamentalism (all too common, unfortunately) to elevate the domains that you're interested in and denigrate others. The post-modernists say it's all culture. The materialist scientists say it's all material processes. Maxists say it's all societal forces. And it goes on ad nauseum.

When I say a spiritual phenomena doesn't have a strong objective component, this is not to say it is in any way less meaningful. As humans the subjective is the most meaningful under many circumstances. After all, what's more meaningful and important: a poem, or the paper on which it is written?

When I say the spirits I've encountered don't meet objective criteria, that means that my interactions with them have never conveyed "objectively verifiable" information or produced any objectively verifiable changes in material processes. But I've gained great value and insight in these interactions. They just happens to relate to my subjective experience. (The spirits have also told me things about the structure of reality, and while interesting, these things are not verifiable either.)

So my work with ayahuasca is not just my brain playing tricks on me. It's an exploration of the core of my being. I find that to be worth doing! In fact, it's a lot more meaningful to me than if I had the experiences that others report, like "I drank ayahuasca and saw jaguars, so it must be real!" If I want to see jaguars I'll go to the zoo, and that doesn't require any vomiting. And the meaning of the experience doesn't hinge on the fact that some people see common visions, thus establishing them as "real." Honestly, that's a really fragile viewpoint.

But hey, lest you think I'm too rational: I do believe in the divine ground of being, and I do believe that I have experience of it through my subjective explorations. :) Ultimately, that's what it's about.

"...but couldn't the above observation be in the same way applied to the empiricist's viewpoint?"

Absolutely! Empiricists see things with empirical eyes. Animists see things with animist eyes. Likewise with atheists and Christians. That was the point I was trying to make: the entheogens rarely shake that up very much, despite the claims of transformation.

"You say "many people" in both statements, they could seem contradictory."

Sorry if I was a little unclear. That was a bit sloppy.

If I had to guess roughly -- and this has a just barely better epistemological foundation than pulling something from an orifice -- I'd say that perhaps 70-80% of the people I know who drink ayahuasca believe in the objective reality of discarnate entities. This surprises me, and that's why I characterized it as "many."

On the other hand, when the claim is "almost all" people believe this, the other 20-30% could be characterized as "many" too. This second statement was in response to such a statement, so that is sense in which I meant it.

"I am looking forward to the day when neuroscientists come up with a way to record dreams and inner visualizations . So one could put on a cap, record the DMT experience and then replay it afterwards and look at everything in detail."

There was a great movie in the 80's about this, called, I believe Brainstorms. Check it out if you haven't seen it. The best scene is when they replay the death.

hmm not so sure. : 2009-05-21 20:09:22
anonymous said:
But I'm an empiricist at heart, and the experience just didn't support the belief,

I have read countless ayahuasca and DMT trip reports over the lastfew years (there are some really good collections out there, compiled from all over the web), I'm curious to learn how the experience manifests itself for you. Can you explain what it is about the experience that doesn't support the belief, how did you get the hunch that this is just your brain playing tricks on yourself?

...that this transformation lays along the line of providing experience that allows them to believe that which the previously only wanted to believe. It provides new beliefs, but it dose not often change beliefs.

I am aware of Occam's razor and its uses and also that a skeptic's stance is built on firmer ground in this context, but couldn't the above observation be in the same way applied to the empiricist's viewpoint? In other words: Because someone's world view is deeply rooted in rationalism, they are likely to interpret the experience in similar terms. And understandably so: after all, by stepping into fringe territory one would also risk many of the conclusions one had safely arrived at before, i.e. one's world view might become unstable, loss of control ensues and so on and so forth. Thus, because it is such a big leap to take, feeling compelled to explain it rationally might just be a psychological defense mechanism.
I am not projecting this onto you, just putting it out there.


anonymous said:
Many people who have worked extensively with these things don't believe that "entities" or "spirits" share a totally separate ontology from the experient.

anonymous said:
I was actually a little shocked at how many people accepted an animist interpretation of the experience, and a very literal one at that. Almost everyone I met accepted the spirits as real...

You say "many people" in both statements, they could seem contradictory. I know it's hard to put a number on it, but could you give rough estimate based on the people that you have come across so far? Is it one half "believers", one half "sceptics", or 60 % vs. 40 % etc.?
I guess counting people's subjectivities doesnt say much about the objective nature of the DMT experience itself, but it would be interesting nonetheless, and unfortunately it's all the "data" we have got so far.

I am looking forward to the day when neuroscientists come up with a way to record dreams and inner visualizations . So one could put on a cap, record the DMT experience and then replay it afterwards and look at everything in detail. It is it often frustrating how fast everything moves in the DMT space, the feeling of information being transmitted at a very fast rate is often reported, as though the movements and objectss presented by those beings have some kind of deeper content encoded into them. So by being able to go back, rewind and watch again in slow motion, one could attempt to decipher what it actually is that is being communicated by these entities.
And if it indeed does turn to be all mumbo jumbo, it would still be heck of a movie.

The early stages for this kind of research may have already begun: [link]
Who knows? Maybe 30 years down the road...

Anonymous. : 2009-05-21 19:22:42
Very reasonable.

When I drink ayahuasca, if I don't purge I don't feel that the ceremony was totally "successful." Truth be told, purging under the profound visual state has probably been my favorite part of the experience for quite a while. Like a god vomiting up a universe. Like giving yourself until there is nothing left. It's a prayer.

jamesk : 2009-05-21 18:10:38
... a very common belief in the "ayahuasca community" is that ayahuasca is healing and unique in and of itself.

Ayahuasca is uniquely healing, but I ascribe that to the purging and detoxifying effects more than the visual or psychedelic effects. The visions make the purging spiritual.

The feeling one has after an ayahuasca session is distinct. The only other time I have felt that way is after two days of stomach flu and fasting and waking up totally "cleansed" the morning after my fever broke. I felt empty, renewed, and like I was spiritually pure. That was because of the purging, it felt "healing" even though I was sick.

So yes, ayahuasca has a distinctly medicine/illness/purging quality that is uniquely "healing", but that has nothing to do with the visions. The visions give the healing a spiritual kick of profundity.

Anonymous. : 2009-05-21 15:22:02
James: Do you think these comments apply to ayahuasca as well as DMT? (full disclosure: I do, and I assume you do to). I ask because because a very common belief in the "ayahuasca community" is that ayahuasca is healing and unique in and of itself. I do believe that ayahuasca is different (after all, it usually contains four or more psychoactive compounds, not just one). Unique? Sure. Profound and potentially useful in healing? Check. A healing medicine in and of itself? Not so much, as far as I can see.

I spent a little time about four years ago in Peru, basically with a bunch of modern, white folks. Truth be told, I was actually a little shocked at how many people accepted an animist interpretation of the experience, and a very literal one at that. Almost everyone I met accepted the spirits as real as those who sat next to them in ceremony.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't be treated as real in ceremony (I've actually found that this is the most useful way of engaging with the experience). But to just accept all experience as literal reminds me of some kind of fundamentalism.

After meeting so many sane and rational people who believed in the spirits I actually tried to believe in them for a while; the people who did seemed to get a lot out of it. But I'm an empiricist at heart, and the experience just didn't support the belief, no matter how fun it would have been to believe it.

That's not to say that I've totally rejected such explanations. I try to keep an open mind on things. But until my experience actually supports a change in beliefs, I don't think I'll be "going native" any time soon.

But likewise, I'm not a materialist, for my experience doesn't support that either. There are truths in materialism, but it doesn't seem to be the whole picture.

jamesk : 2009-05-21 13:45:22
The DMT/ayahuasca spirit discussion is hard to tease apart because DMT can, in fact, make you see entities and make you feel that integral connection to the web of life. So in a sense it is very spiritual by nature. However, DMT can also cause psychosis, paranoia, and the tendency to get trapped in self-reinforcing delusional belief systems. The key, I think, is separating experience from belief. You can have a very spiritual experience on DMT and that is presumably very healthy for the body and psyche, but if you start to *believe* that DMT is spiritual and healthy for all people in all situations then this is where you run into trouble with reality. DMT/ayahuasca can be a very spiritually rewarding experience, but if you build your spirituality, religion, and ontology around the DMT experience you run the risk of perverting that ineffable experience into something that looks more like mind control than medicine.
Anonymous. : 2009-05-21 11:48:55
Haven't seen you in some time! The aya forums miss you.

bricoleur. : 2009-05-21 09:36:25
Refreshing discussion!

I am reminded of ....

Psychedelic chemicals open doors.

Psychedelic chemicals allow one to glimpse truth.

Psychedelic chemicals admit the seeker into the mystery.

Psychedelic chemicals do nothing of the sort.

....

Anonymous. : 2009-05-21 08:47:24
I think both "dreamdust" and "not so sure" both have very valid points to make. My thinking aligns a little more towards dreamdust's perspective, but I think it is good, useful, and thoughtful discussion.

I would like to comment on one point:

"You enter this space that is inhabited by beings, (yes I am aware this sounds utterly whacko to anyone hasnt been there) who want to communicate with you, consistently. And almost everyone who breaks through to that space says it couldnt have possibly been a product of one's imagination. I am not saying that I am totally sold on this, but why are so many who were skeptics before trying it (many of them thoroughly scientific minded), just so utterly floored when coming out of this experience?"

I realize that this comment was qualified with "almost always," but I don't think the reality is quite so simple. While fundamental epistemological and ontological shifts are possible, in reality they are rare. In their initial enthusiasm many people (understandably) claim that the experience "transformed their world-view." But in entering into conversations with these people one finds, more often than not, that this transformation lays along the line of providing experience that allows them to believe that which the previously only wanted to believe. It provides new beliefs, but it dose not often change beliefs.

Many people who have worked extensively with these things don't believe that "entities" or "spirits" share a totally separate ontology from the experient. Benny Shannon, who wrote the most comprehensive study of the ayahuasca experience to date and who has done incredible amounts of personal work with the tea, is a case in point. The tea did change him (in one of those seemingly rare cases): he started as a rational atheist, and came out the other side as a non-atheist. But even so he doesn't believe that the experience is anything other than an experience of our imagination when turned towards the divine.

James Kent -- the owner of this site and someone who, shall we say, appears to have extensive experience and thought behind him -- is another example. Many times he's gone of record stating that the entheogenic experience is an experience of our imagination, and is quite amazing because of it. He offers the observation that we have no idea what the imagination is or is capable of, and that's an astounding, cool thing.

My own experiences with ayahuasca (and certain extracted alkaloids that are often found in the tea) is very ambiguous. When an entity shows up I have the courtesy to treat it as if it exists, and it assumes subjective reality (at least for the duration of the experience). But to be honest nothing in my experience leads me to believe that such entities have any separate existence. Yes, they are amazing and astounding -- that is a subjective truth. But if one wants to evaluate them in any "objective" sense, then they would have to have some objective component. I have not found this to be the case.

hmm not so sure. : 2009-05-20 19:36:26
> I think many in the psychedelic scene CLING to this belief
> that psychedelics are the way to salvation. They're
> desperately hoping some entheogen will come and save
> humanity from itself. Maybe so. But something tells me it
> isn't that easy. Enlightenment doesn't come from packing
> a fat bowl of DMT. If it did, we'd already be.

I totally agree. It does not do the work for you, but it can accelerate one's progress tremendously when one is truly committed to working on oneself.

There's just this fundamental difference to MDMA or LSD that is really hard if not futile to explain away in purely hallucinatory terms: You enter this space that is inhabited by beings, (yes I am aware this sounds utterly whacko to anyone hasnt been there) who want to communicate with you, consistently. And almost everyone who breaks through to that space says it couldnt have possibly been a product of one's imagination. I am not saying that I am totally sold on this, but why are so many who were skeptics before trying it (many of them thoroughly scientific minded), just so utterly floored when coming out of this experience? There is a good chance that humanity has stumbled upon some kind of 'portal'. The implications, if true, just seem too shattering to discount as something on the same level as MDMA.

dreamdust. : 2009-05-20 17:11:22
I'm not so sure. There's this attitude that DMT/Ayahuasca does the work for you. Whereas in my experience you have to take what it shows you and incorporate it into your life, much like LSD and MDMA.

This idea that DMT "heals" you, or raises your consciousness just by taking it is exactly the attitude the original proponents of LSD had. Just get the whole world to drop and everyone will be better, so to speak. Except the whole world DID drop, and we were left with the same issues to work through that LSD was supposed to help us overcome.

I know many people who buy DMT for pure "kicks" and hedonism. Doesn't seem to affect them any more profoundly than LSD or MDMA, for instance.

Of course there are those of us who use DMT/Ayahuasca for spiritual transformation and healing, but it's just another path among many.

There's this attitude of exclusivity surrounding DMT/Ayahuasca, where using it is supposedly the only way to achieve the fruits everyone is energized about.

I think many in the psychedelic scene CLING to this belief that psychedelics are the way to salvation. They're desperately hoping some entheogen will come and save humanity from itself. Maybe so. But something tells me it isn't that easy. Enlightenment doesn't come from packing a fat bowl of DMT. If it did, we'd already be.

For people who constantly claim "the map is not the territory" it seems many have already "confused the menu with the meal" when it comes to DMT/Ayahuasca.

hmm not so sure. : 2009-05-20 14:15:47
I dont think the MDMA crowd was/is in any way comparable to the people involved with DMT/ayahuasca. The former is much more, if not almost entirely hedonism-driven (nothing wrong with that per se). Sure there's empathy and we-are-all-one-feelings for 3 hours, but afterwards everyone crashes, and feels shitty, not much lasting insight to be gained IMO. Whereas with ayahusaca it's the other way around: you first feel shitty and then the realizations/bliss/health benefits manifest. The folks drawn to it seem more, um, conscious (?) and concerned about long term healing and introspection.

just my 2 cents

guest : 2009-05-19 16:24:17
"It seems to me that the surge of interest around DMT and Ayahuasca mimics the false expectations of MDMA and LSD."

I never noticed the parallel between E and ayahuasca/DMT before, but you're right.

Agreed with Anonymous. : 2009-05-19 15:52:52
Definitely going to read this first chance I get.

I'm very interested in reading the "Whatever Happened to the E-volution?" article. It seems to me that the surge of interest around DMT and Ayahuasca mimics the false expectations of MDMA and LSD.

I feel that we are finally starting to come to grips with the falsity of the "drugs as a panacea" meme.

If what we bring back from our journey is intangible, how will we use it to change ourselves and the world?


"I think about the best we can say is that you can always use what you get..."

I like that.

Gwyllm. : 2009-05-19 13:20:33
Good to see The Journeybook and Rak getting a mention in the US!
Anonymous. : 2009-05-19 12:04:52
Thanks for the great interview. The book sounds like a real find, so it'll be going right on my "to-read" list, somewhere near the top!

One part of the article did stand out a bit:

"I think the most important thing ayahuasca can offer the West is a reconnection to spirit on a personal level and on a Gaian collective level. Ayahuasca opens you up to your own heart space for your own emotional healing in an idiosyncratic way that is individual to you and your needs."

That's definitely the received wisdom of the new psychonauts, the group-think under which many are laboring. But to an extent I think that's just a re-hash of the millenia-old expectation/desire for some messiah to come swooping down from the skies and save us from ourselves. I think the reality of the situation is much more fuzzy and uncertain, much more indistinct. I've worked pretty intensely with ayahuasca for the past five years -- and continue to do so -- and I see little evidence that ayahuasca is always up to the task of healing us in "her own idiosyncratic way." Many people who have drank the jungle-muddy koolaid belive that ayahuasca always gives you what you need. That's very much overstating things! I think about the best we can say is that you can always use what you get, and we need to take it from there. I can't see where real healing comes from outside ourselves.

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