Podcast: 9/11 and the American Psychedelic Dream

Just who does take psychedelics in the 21st century, after the lockdown of consciousness post 9/11? What role does the psychedelic community still offer as an activist movement? Psychedelic academic and author Robert Forte cuts to the chase by proposing that the medicinal resurgence of psychedelics obscures their real purpose as an anti-war, expansion of consciousness and creativity movement. Forte explores how psychedelics permit the illusion of America as a free state instead of a failed state, and the origins of the war on drugs and the Nixon-Leary struggle for the soul of a generation... Were avant guard psychologists of the late 50s and early 60s like Frank Barron and Tim Leary "assassin bees of consciousness", aware of the mass mind-control operation on America? And what lessons can we learn from such models, strategically using the mind-expansion psychedelics provide to best re-engineer the psychedelic movement into the future? Be provoked by this controversial discussion with experiential journalist Rak Razam...

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Posted By jamesk at 2010-06-30 12:43:16 permalink | comments

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Anonymous. : 2010-07-12 14:09:56

"I, too, am curious as to how many that proselytize psychedelics like DMT/aya, salvia or mushrooms are sincerely seeking TRUTH and feel deep empathy for the peril of our situation, or are merely jumping on board an esoteric and trendy meme."

Truth is the trendy meme right now.

That, too, will pass.

Anonymous. : 2010-07-12 14:06:33

OK, I finally got around to listening to this, and I have two comments.

First, I think Forte is being slightly misrepresented here; he doesn't speak about the "real purpose of psychedelics."

What he does speak about is what the purpose of the psychedelic movement was--in other words, what people like Leary and Barron had in mind when the began popularizing psychedelics and handing them out with an assortment of memes and slogans. This is a different issue! Did Leary and his ilk have in mind activism and reaction to the status quo of the 1950's when then undertook their grand experiment? This is entirely possible, and Forte has some depth of knowledge in this regards, having studied under some of the instigators of the "psychedelic movement."

Forte does seem to side solidly with those who promote activism, and he seems to think that psychedelics without activism is something of a waste. But in doing so he is commenting more of society and culture than any inherent properties of the substances themselves.

Secondly: Rak, if you're reading this, you need to chill a bit! You need to take a breath and let the people you're interviewing answer the question before you start asking new ones. I think you had a few to many cups of Joe the day you did this interview...

teleomorph : 2010-07-04 04:01:52

I meant foisted, not hoisted.

teleomorph : 2010-07-04 03:37:07

I also sympathize with Forte's curiosity as to how much of the psychedelic movement is politically aware. Because there is no cohesive message these days ala "tune in turn on drop out" it's hard to tell whether there is a unifying principle among the psychedelically minded. There's 2012 but that's a mess right now as to what it is supposed to mean.

To be honest I've been absolutely appalled in recent years at how many psychedelic folk bought the Obama/Democrat Lie hook line & sinker. Or are supporters of things like the Israeli/US/UK government, man-made global warming inanity, the official version of 9-11 and other flagrant fictions hoisted upon the public.
I, too, am curious as to how many that proselytize psychedelics like DMT/aya, salvia or mushrooms are sincerely seeking TRUTH and feel deep empathy for the peril of our situation, or are merely jumping on board an esoteric and trendy meme.

teleomorph : 2010-07-04 01:33:04

I have to say I'm with TruthGuerilla and Forte on this. Psychedelics may be a neutral tool, yes, but they are such a powerful tool that to let them be used or defined as merely agents of escapism or sadism is a waste. I agree with McKenna the Elder in venturing that these things may be the only medicine/technology strong enough to steer our species away from the cliff of extinction we are barreling towards.
What is gained by 'explaining away' the psychedelics in terms constrained by historical rationality? We can conjure immense social change by implementing the visions we cherish most from our experiences, or we can stay in the psychedelic closet or assume other's projections of 'dreamer' or 'druggie,' detachedly contemplating insights while living in constant fear of the 'outside' herd mentality and it's criminal society.

Don't focus on Forte saying the "real purpose", your fixating on semantics. He is trying to emphasis the potential of psychedelics for engagement and activism in bringing about the REAL changes that we desperately need as opposed to disengaged apathy or leader/government worship that all too many liberals and new-agers have so pitifully succumbed to.

[And Donut, I don't believe that is any evidence that the mushroom-using Maya were the same as the violent society Maya. That civilization was huge, complex and spanned many centuries before they returned to jungles. You may also be thinking of the Aztecs, they were more known for warlike behavior.]

slay : 2010-07-03 00:48:22

truth guerilla, i too have found that time solely exists around one's wrists or on a man made structure, not at all the way most are conditioned to think about it. in my opinion, psychedelics are fantastic keys that can unlock the filters of your brain, enabling staggering expansions of consciousness and vivid, inexplicble perceptions.

Anonymous. : 2010-07-02 07:29:33

"They (the cia-fbi-nsa-etc - Who do these people work for?) want to turn the wave (that Hunter Thompson wrote about) of the 60's into some kind of product to be integrated with capitalist society."

Want to? It's already been done.

Never underestimate the power of marketing and monetization.

[But I seriously doubt the cia-fbi-nsa has anything to do with it. Such involvement isn't really necessary, and those guys don't seem that creative. Give them some powerful psychedelics and the best thing they can come up with is to make a fake brothel and dose people on hidden video...]

guest : 2010-07-02 00:32:53

i love dosenation comments

jamesk : 2010-07-01 13:13:26

There is no "real purpose" for psychedelics. They are tools. You can do many things with them. The only "real purpose" is whatever you use them for. The drugs do their own thing. All the talk is just a means to co-opt the paradigm.

TruthGuerrilla. : 2010-07-01 11:57:56

"I don't believe you have the answer, I've got ideas too..." -Bad Religion

Time itself doesn't exist and history keeps repeating the same lessons over and over. (Rome) Must we go and re-listen to Terence Mckenna? I think so because most still haven't gripped the bigger picture. They (the cia-fbi-nsa-etc - Who do these people work for?) want to turn the wave (that Hunter Thompson wrote about) of the 60's into some kind of product to be integrated with capitalist society. Starting in the 90's it is our job now to re-tap into the essence and redefine our culture again, pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq, and construct for ourselves a livable future instead of trading our future for material objects. Ralph Nader said "If you don't turn onto politics, politics will turn on you." Everything is politics. While the revolutionary and hippie may be one in the same they need to unite.

Bo. : 2010-07-01 11:21:29

Rak Razam needs to let Forte speak. Are all his interviews like this?

Anonymous. : 2010-07-01 09:28:23

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet (although I've heard Forte before, and he sounds like an intelligent, insightful, and likable guy).

Yes, many many people seem to think they know the "real purpose" of psychedelics. Leary thought it was to learn to "think for yourself." John Lash thinks it is to connect to the Gaian mind. Many people in the ayahuasca community think that the tea should only be used for healing through contact with a plant-species spirit. McKeanna the Elder thought that it was to engage in a mystery that broke the materialist paradigm, whereas McKenna the Younger thinks it is to connect to the spirit of the plants.

The list goes on.

If people want to believe they've figured it out, that's fine as far as I'm concerned. But I think it's a bit naive.

Honestly, I think the power of psychedelics is vastly overestimated by the initiated and vastly underestimated by the uninitiated.

In other words, standard human stuff.

soma_junkie. : 2010-07-01 00:23:04

I think you're right, Donut. I've met all kinds of trippers....from anarcho-socialists, to neo-conservatives, to white supremacists, to the severely apathetic and on and on. I don't think psychedelics necessarily have an agenda. What people get out of them depends on the mind of the user, their background and their interests and influences. These things color the way people interpret their experiences. That's not to say there can't be some heavy themes involved with psychedelics, it's just that not everyone will experience them the same way and will therefore take away different lessons.

Sangoma. : 2010-06-30 23:22:39

Elegantly put by Donut.

Donut. : 2010-06-30 19:15:13

I'm all for the anti-war movement, but it strikes me as extremely presumptuous to claim that the "real purpose" of psychedelics necessarily has anything to do with it. The historical example of the Mayans comes to mind - an extremely warlike society despite their cultural integration of the mushroom. I would suggest that we are in no position to claim to know what the "real purpose" of psychedelics is - or that there even is a "real purpose" to discover, perhaps.

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Podcast: 9/11 and the American Psychedelic Dream

Posted By jamesk at 2010-06-30 12:43:16 permalink | comments

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