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Posted By jamesk at 2010-06-23 12:12:13 permalink | comments

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primordialstupid. : 2010-07-12 16:06:37

comments directed at primordialstu not stu

primordialstupid. : 2010-07-04 09:33:24

I meant put your thinking cap on to the extent your hydrocephalism permits this.

primordialstupid. : 2010-07-04 04:46:49

Aside from your neanderthal grunts, why don't you offer something of substance Mr. Stu.? How about coming up with an analysis we can follow? I bet you can't. Time to turn off VH1, put the Dorrito bag down and put your thinking cap on.

primordialstu : 2010-07-03 15:40:32

I meant the guest who claims to see the future of MAPS, not the guest who thinks doctors should be licensed.

primordialstu : 2010-07-03 14:09:02

guest - you are tripping, and not in a good way.

guest : 2010-07-03 14:07:20

Frankly, I appreciate that my doctor, acupuncturist, therapist - or even my lawyer - has to meet state standards to be licensed. Doesn't eliminate all the quacks, but at least ensures some kind of baseline of knowledge and practice. Think about what MAPS works with - therapeutic uses of psychedelics. If I want someone to use MDMA to treat my PTSD, I'd probably prefer someone that I knew had professional training. And I don't think that would prevent me from taking some at a rave, either. Note the difference between therapeutic use and recreational.

guest : 2010-07-01 03:14:23

This discussion is timely. Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS, has close ties to the DEA and was a key figure in the scheduling of MDMA in 1985. His portrayal of himself and his organization as an outsider is not without merit but skates on thin ice. The future of MAPS does not look good. Extrapolating from the current MAPS modus operandi it seems likely that it will one day be subsumed by the FDA and all the corruption and graft that this implies, notably from pharmaceutical corporations, eager to cash in on design protocols for as yet unsynthesized entactogens. The DEA will have even more privileged access to MAPS data and records than they already do, some of which will be denied to the public. It is not unreasonable to suppose that MAPS will at some point down the road be infiltrated by DEA agents who will turn this once scrappy non-profit into a husk, and MAPS could one day well be the center of an MK-ULTRA-type scandal. Doblin has been aware of these hazards since the inception of MAPS in 1986 but chooses to dismiss it as fear mongering and concentrates his efforts on the here and now, with some notable success, most recently in the 2008 MDMA study that countered much government lies about the drug. How Machiavellian Doblin is about his organization is an open question.

not an informed opinion. : 2010-06-30 14:23:14

I think there is a difference between getting the "blessing" of a paternalistic gov't organization, and having a Fed be your sitter. If it is something where they check if you are on other meds, have been undergoing therapy, have a criminal record, are of some minimum age, and then hand over the psychedelic, along with a pamphlet with warnings and instructions and an emergency help number, and then ask if the user has any questions before leaving the clinic/dispensary, well, that doesn't sound outrageously out-of-bounds to me.

If Doblin is suggesting that someone (some stranger/expert) is gonna be there, watching the user during the trip, or guiding them, etc., then who would want to do that? Maybe some people, in certain circumstances, but I don't think it is a great idea to make that the only acceptable way of using something.

jamesk : 2010-06-30 12:00:53

You guys are being too hard on Rick Doblin. There is resistance, there is compliance, and then there is a third path, which is bending both resistance and compliance to make compromise. I don't think anything Rick has done has hurt psychedelic exploration or forced anyone into compliance. There is still prohibition, there are still people who resist prohibition, but now there is a third path for people who seek treatment without fear of reprisal. This does not harm you any more than gay marriage threatens straight people. You are just angry Doblin chose compromise over straight up resistance.

guest : 2010-06-30 05:14:59

Doblin simply can no longer think anyone would want to do a psychedelic without the blessing of some paternalistic organization. This is what happens when rich liberals cut deals with the government.

Anonymous. : 2010-06-28 07:35:10

"Excuse me, but how exactly has Rick Doblin advocated government involvement in psychedelic trips? What kind of involvement are you suggesting? "

If you've ever heard him speak of his vision of the future, it usually involves people being able to explore the psychic states engendered by these substances, but only under the guidance of licensed, government-approved facilitators.

primordialstu : 2010-06-25 16:02:15

Excuse me, but how exactly has Rick Doblin advocated government involvement in psychedelic trips? What kind of involvement are you suggesting?

Anonymous. : 2010-06-25 09:58:45

Stu, I don't think that you're wrong, but neither do I think that Rick is wrong.

There are different avenues that can be taken by those who see the current situation [i]vis a vis[/i] psychedelics wrong-headed and misguided. Rick has chosen to "work within" the system (i.e., scientific and governmental establishment). That is not the only path one could follow--and it isn't the one I would choose--but that doesn't make it invalid.

Personally I would come at this from the perspective of cognitive liberty and personal sovereignty. But I'm not omniscient; even through I feel the is the correct philosophy (and the type of government involvement implied by MAPS' approach is scary to me), I have no idea what the best [i]practical[/i] approach would be. Perhaps MAPS approach is the correct one to get us where we need to ultimately be (camel nose under the tent and all). Perhaps it isn't. Who really knows?

But Rick/MAPS is doing what they feel is right, and lacking the ability to see into the future, I don't feel comfortable criticizing them, even though I may personally disagree with the approach.

Gwyllm. : 2010-06-25 01:39:23

Well put Stu.

stu. : 2010-06-24 15:32:54

Yes, MAPS has done some good work, and has pushed the boundary of psychedelic acceptance both with the U.S. government and society, but Rick Doblin has become too immersed in working with U.S. agencies, too entrenched in the bureaucracy of control, and now needs to retire. More than that, he needs to be stopped. He has advocated government involvement in psychedelic trips with the citizenry, claiming, in effect, that your next acid trip should be under the benevolent guidance of a medical bureaucrat. As Tim Leary said, "Government involvement in alterted consciousness for people is my worst nightmare." Thanks for all your hard work Rick, we mean that, but please leave the arena before you become an embarrassement.

Austin Rubio-Boitel. : 2010-06-23 16:59:03

MAPS as I believe most would agree is worthy of recieving proper funding for the very implortant research.

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Posted By jamesk at 2010-06-23 12:12:13 permalink | comments

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